Mondrian integration

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Mondrian integration

OG
Hello,

I'm trying to understand the benefit of LucidDB+Mondrian integration.  Since LucidDB *is* designed for DW and BI, is there really a need for Mondrian?  My understanding of Mondrian is that it adds value when one wants to use a regular RDBMS and a schema that is not necessarily designed for DW/BI-type queries, yet one decides to start run DW/BI-style reports.  Then Mondrian sits between the client and the backend RDBMS, translates MDX to SQL, aggregates data retrieved from the RDBMS, and caches it.  Is this needed when the backend RDBMS is LucidDB?

I'm looking at John Sichi's LucidDB presentation and I see Mondrian mentioned on slide 6 ("System Dataflow"), which shows a diagram that includes Mondrian.  From that diagram it looks like the advantage (or the main value?) of Mondrian sitting in front of LucidDB is that MDX-capable clients can now talk to LucidDB through Mondrian, even though LucidDB doesn't speak MDX itself.

Is this correct?
Are there other reasons why one may want or need to use Mondrian with LucidDB?

Thanks,
Otis


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Re: Mondrian integration

Tom Barber
Aggregate tables, superior querying business over time, ease of drilling, nifty frontends to visualise the data, role based security etc etc

Tom



On Thu 17/12/09 8:03 PM , OG [hidden email] sent:
Hello,

I'm trying to understand the benefit of LucidDB+Mondrian integration. Since LucidDB *is* designed for DW and BI, is there really a need for Mondrian? My understanding of Mondrian is that it adds value when one wants to use a regular RDBMS and a schema that is not necessarily designed for DW/BI-type queries, yet one decides to start run DW/BI-style reports. Then Mondrian sits between the client and the backend RDBMS, translates MDX to SQL, aggregates data retrieved from the RDBMS, and caches it. Is this needed when the backend RDBMS is LucidDB?

I'm looking at John Sichi's LucidDB presentation and I see Mondrian mentioned on slide 6 ("System Dataflow"), which shows a diagram that includes Mondrian. From that diagram it looks like the advantage (or the main value?) of Mondrian sitting in front of LucidDB is that MDX-capable clients can now talk to LucidDB through Mondrian, even though LucidDB doesn't speak MDX itself.

Is this correct?
Are there other reasons why one may want or need to use Mondrian with LucidDB?

Thanks,
Otis


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Re: Mondrian integration

Julian Hyde-9
In reply to this post by OG
Short answer: do your end-users want to write SQL, or do they want to use a
multi-dimensional OLAP interface? If they're happy to write SQL, no need for
Mondrian.

Julian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: OG [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:03 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [luciddb-users] Mondrian integration
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to understand the benefit of LucidDB+Mondrian
> integration.  Since LucidDB *is* designed for DW and BI, is
> there really a need for Mondrian?  My understanding of
> Mondrian is that it adds value when one wants to use a
> regular RDBMS and a schema that is not necessarily designed
> for DW/BI-type queries, yet one decides to start run
> DW/BI-style reports.  Then Mondrian sits between the client
> and the backend RDBMS, translates MDX to SQL, aggregates data
> retrieved from the RDBMS, and caches it.  Is this needed when
> the backend RDBMS is LucidDB?
>
> I'm looking at John Sichi's LucidDB presentation and I see
> Mondrian mentioned on slide 6 ("System Dataflow"), which
> shows a diagram that includes Mondrian.  From that diagram it
> looks like the advantage (or the main value?) of Mondrian
> sitting in front of LucidDB is that MDX-capable clients can
> now talk to LucidDB through Mondrian, even though LucidDB
> doesn't speak MDX itself.
>
> Is this correct?
> Are there other reasons why one may want or need to use
> Mondrian with LucidDB?
>
> Thanks,
> Otis
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community
> Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support
> A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app
> distribution fast and easy
> Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers
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> _______________________________________________
> luciddb-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/luciddb-users
>


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Re: Mondrian integration

Pedro Alves-2


If you don't know the benefits of mdx, you never wrote a query there.

Lucid excels in star schemas; the way other relational dbs do the
multitable joins is just painful.



-pedro

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:31:59PM -0800, Julian Hyde wrote:

> Short answer: do your end-users want to write SQL, or do they want to use a
> multi-dimensional OLAP interface? If they're happy to write SQL, no need for
> Mondrian.
>
> Julian
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: OG [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:03 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [luciddb-users] Mondrian integration
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm trying to understand the benefit of LucidDB+Mondrian
> > integration.  Since LucidDB *is* designed for DW and BI, is
> > there really a need for Mondrian?  My understanding of
> > Mondrian is that it adds value when one wants to use a
> > regular RDBMS and a schema that is not necessarily designed
> > for DW/BI-type queries, yet one decides to start run
> > DW/BI-style reports.  Then Mondrian sits between the client
> > and the backend RDBMS, translates MDX to SQL, aggregates data
> > retrieved from the RDBMS, and caches it.  Is this needed when
> > the backend RDBMS is LucidDB?
> >
> > I'm looking at John Sichi's LucidDB presentation and I see
> > Mondrian mentioned on slide 6 ("System Dataflow"), which
> > shows a diagram that includes Mondrian.  From that diagram it
> > looks like the advantage (or the main value?) of Mondrian
> > sitting in front of LucidDB is that MDX-capable clients can
> > now talk to LucidDB through Mondrian, even though LucidDB
> > doesn't speak MDX itself.
> >
> > Is this correct?
> > Are there other reasons why one may want or need to use
> > Mondrian with LucidDB?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Otis
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community
> > Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support
> > A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app
> > distribution fast and easy
> > Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev 
> > _______________________________________________
> > luciddb-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/luciddb-users
> >
>
>
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--
Pedro Alves
pmgalves-at-gmail.com

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Re: Mondrian integration

Francisco Reyes-3
In reply to this post by Julian Hyde-9
Julian Hyde writes:

> Short answer: do your end-users want to write SQL, or do they want to use a
> multi-dimensional OLAP interface? If they're happy to write SQL, no need for
> Mondrian.

Just to show that even company is it's own world.. where I work we are
totally CLI/SQL based. We even have a new employee just learning DBs and
SQL. Me and another senior data analyst recommended some graphical tools,
but the CTO insisted on CLI.  We sort of compromised.. we showed the new
person how to extract the data using CLI/SQL, but also are showing her how
to use Knime to graph.

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Re: Mondrian integration

Francisco Reyes-3
In reply to this post by Pedro Alves-2
Pedro Alves writes:

> Lucid excels in star schemas; the way other relational dbs do the
> multitable joins is just painful.

As much as I love Postgresql... it doesn't do multi-table joins very well.
Specially 3+ tables. Our dataset is also statistically.... weird. :-)

Often times Postgresql chooses, let's say, less than stellar plans. We even
disable PGs bitmap (which are in memory) index scans.

Lucid, in my opinion, lacks the maturity and nicecities that Postgres
after many years and many paid developers  has, but Lucid totally smokes
Postgres on BI.


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Re: Mondrian integration

John Sichi
Administrator
In reply to this post by Julian Hyde-9
Julian Hyde wrote:
> Short answer: do your end-users want to write SQL, or do they want to use a
> multi-dimensional OLAP interface? If they're happy to write SQL, no need for
> Mondrian.

Slightly longer answer:  besides the multi-dimensional interface,
integrating Mondrian into your architecture also provides:

(a) caching of aggregations on-the-fly in memory
(b) ability to use aggregate tables
(c) a poor-man's form of global query optimization (preloading related
aggregations beyond what you asked for)

I expect that LucidDB will one day provide all of these at the SQL
level, but for now, Mondrian is a nice way to layer them on top.

JVS

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